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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
347
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Posted - 2012.09.01 20:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you can't have direct benefits for members of the controling militias in the system, how about LP store items like boosters. The boosters will only work in FW systems, will give a benefit depending on the current system, and fade if you leave the system. If you're in an opposing system, it would work like the 0 upgrade booster. I'll leave the actual numbers of the effects to more qualified people, but the idea does seem to solve the problem of giving rewards to the actual FW members.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
347
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Posted - 2012.09.01 21:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have to wonder as well if these changes are enough to warrant a reset. Perhaps remove the docking penalty for a week to allow people to move items or take the systems back. As it stands, it seems people are going to try and do one last T5 cash out the day before the expansion hits, then try and sit on the systems. With the extra time it'll take to flip a system, someone sitting at T5 may very well stay there forever.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
349
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think the numbers involve a lot of assumptions we just don't have the facts to assume, but overall a good read.
I think the bleed rate is going to be too slow as stated, and will have to be increased. It'll just be a matter of if it's increased while still on sisi, or not until after one side has a major advantage on TQ with a firm grasp on the warzone.
I agree with you that the missions will need to be removed from the bonus level structure, or nerfed enough that even with the bonus it's better to be out plexing.
Perhaps it's time to remove getting LP for doing sister militia sites as well. You could still get standing increases, and help the other side with their warzone control, but you'd stop making your own LP doing it.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
353
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Until these changes hit sisi, it's hard to tell how bad or good they are going to be. Most everyone agress the bleed rate is too slow, so i'd expect that to change even before it hits sisi.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
355
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Posted - 2012.09.04 22:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
At this point, we're all arguing over numbers without having the basis to argue over them. It would be nice for the Devs to chip in some answers, but that doesn't seem likely now. We might just have to see what it's like when it hits sisi and go from there.
Some changes i'd still like to see added:
I'd like to see the system name in the FW UI blink when a timer is running in a system.
I'd like a new beacon type that only FW militia can see in the overview (pirates should have to scan you down).
I'd like to see a plex captured instantly if a battle is won by one side or the other in pvp. (perhaps some base isk value on the killmail so it isn't gamed) |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
358
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Posted - 2012.09.07 11:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Why are all you FW bads in favour of things being harder for outlaws? Don't you like us? We're already playing on hard mode.
Yeah, it must be hard to look at the overview, and know exactly where targets are ... i'm not sure how you guys handle all the adversity.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
393
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Posted - 2012.09.20 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:What specifically do you mean individual pvp benefits? Repair costs ok. Ship pvp performance bonuses Quote:But what do you mean marginal pvp boosts in that individual system locally and globally? Marginal as in not OP like 50% T3 cruiser fleet bonuses. Quote:What do you mean the benefits decay if you are not active? If you don't participate for a while then your benefits decay back down to zero. Quote:Is faction war no longer to be something for casual players? No? Have you stopped beating your wife?
I still like my idea of boosters you can only get in the FW LP shops. They'd have an effect based on the system upgrade level, or if that's too hard, could even be on the vulnerability level. If it's your system, but it's vulnerable, you get the 0 upgrade boost. If it's the other side's system, but you have it vulnerable, you get the 5 upgrade boost. The boost clears if you change systems.
That gives a direct benefit to the actual FW members that are worthless outside FW, and factors in the system.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
429
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Posted - 2012.09.28 12:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Well, I just read this: Pinky's BlogAnd I really think that everyone is overthinking everything at this point in time. Agreed. No offense to Pinky, brainstorming never hurts, but I think its time for an update from the devs so we can refocus our feedback instead of trying to reinvent the wheel because we don't have much news to chew on and we're getting bored and anxious with the current mechanics that are badly in need of repair.
I was told that they were having internal discussions with the team and with CSM. Are you guys not getting any updates from them either? If not, perhaps the ship rebalancing is taking more time than they thought, and FW is being put on the backburner. There's still a bit of time before Winter, and the FW changes don't seem to be as code intensive.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
449
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Posted - 2012.10.05 13:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:How about you can only cap a system that has a capped system ajacent to it.
This would create a 'front line' and would stop a wholesale warzone flip.?
The other changes will stop the wholesale warzone flip, as you'll want to have as many systems as possible all the time.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
460
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Posted - 2012.10.15 15:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hoarr wrote:I think this is a great move on CCP's part. It's a move to affect some sort of reset on the FW control before bringing DUST mercs on to TQ without actually just hitting the reset button. It will probably fuel some intense conflicts in the run up to the expansion with the dominant force being pushed out of the weaker force's space to an extent.
I doubt it'll have much effect until the new bleed numbers. There's too much LP right now for 12.5% to make a dent.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
489
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Posted - 2012.10.31 21:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:[
On a completely unrelated note:
Just spent some time studying the Amarr/Shakorite militia interface and the map/setup is even more lopsided than I realised.
Amarr are after the pre-patch flurry almost back to full system count, have upgraded most systems (not all fully) and are low tier2.
Minmatar have slightly more than 'base', have no upgraded systems that I can see and are high tier 3.
SORT THE DAMN MAP DISCREPANCY!
You don't see the upgraded system for the enemy militia. There are 70 systems, and you need 84 points to hit tier 2. So even if you had them all, it's impossible to hit tier 2 without upgrading, let alone 3 or higher.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
505
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Posted - 2012.11.16 12:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
lovebus wrote:now i could be mistaken about this since i live in null sec we don't see many incursions existing for more than a few hours before some1 takes them out. Don't they have detrimental effects on teh systems? why not just do the opposite of those effects? ALSO why not implement some combat related bonuses so that it is easier for defending navies to HOLD the systems they invest in and creat chokepooints. That is the main reason i dont do FW personally, the systems flip too often.
However this is a risky move that may create more problems than it saves as far as combat mechanics go but it think it would solve your whole "incentive" issue. Think about it. the reason peopl create infastructure is becasue they expect it to be a long term investment. Why would i dedicate my time and resources to a system that probably won't belong to my faction after i get back from dinner?
The mechanics in place now, systems seem to take days or weeks to flip, and they only flip if the defenders really don't seem to want the system. Perhaps someone has the exact numbers, but the warzones have seemed pretty stagnant since the change.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
508
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Posted - 2012.11.17 15:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Who could possibly have predicted that introducing defensive LP would make the warzone static .. must require several Ph.D's to ever come to that conclusion!!!!!
PS: No I dont have a Ph.D. much less several, yet it was clear to me after a full minutes worth of thought .. either I am godly in the brain/analytical department or CCP+cronies are the proverbial doornails.
PPS: To sort their fuckup, they are now contemplating adding off-race NPCs to defensive plexes to increase the risk .. rather than just axing (or reducing) D.LP again, go figure .. the level of folly can compete with the worst politicians bring to the table .. hahahahahahaha.
My take: Holding a system should be its own reward (lots of possibilities, debated since forever), upgrades should be worth enough to want to defend them (lots of possibilities, debated since forever) or defensive plexing should be removed entirely by using aut-run timers (lots of possibilities, debated since forever).
I think you came pretty late to the discussion, but every post after they talked about the defensive bleed rate said it was too slow.
I'd guess you haven't done a defensive plex either, but the payouts on systems you're actually trying to keep stable are pretty low. There are some systems it seems people are trying to keep in the "money" range, but for the most part, you're getting 100-600 lp doing a defensive plex.
The problem with any solution to plexes is that they're a pve mechanic. Any pvp twist you put on them can just be jobbed by making an alt in the other militia. The only solution i could see would be to make offensive and defensive plexes actually 2 different things, and if you do either, it clears one from the other side for an hour or two. So if you offensively plex, it removes a defensive plex from the system for a couple hours, or extends the respawn rate. That way gangs can work to effectively sway a system one way or another. People would have incentive to fight off those gangs too, to keep from losing their homes.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
508
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Posted - 2012.11.19 21:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
It seems from Hans' latest CSM update, that he's personally pushing for the plex timer in the overview change. I can't say enough how much i disagree with that change. The overview already gives out too much intel for free, there's no need to give it even more. It might lead to more fights, but simply having the system name flashing in the FW window showing that a plex is being run would do the same, without making it easy on people.
Pirates should have to scan plexes down in the first place, but it doesn't seem that will change. The militia scrubs that just jump around trying to split the lp from the plex will increase. People will be able to dscan, and have a much better idea if there's an acceleration gate camp or not, actually leading to less pvp. If you see 1 person there, and the timer is counting down, you automatically know that one person is inside, with perhaps cloakers, but you'll know from local how many people you have to worry about.
Timers on the overview is just a bad change. Simply have the system name in the FW window flash. The pvpers can go there and hunt the offenders down. Handing people a sign that says "here i am" is just an idiotic change.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
509
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Posted - 2012.11.20 15:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:It seems from Hans' latest CSM update, that he's personally pushing for the plex timer in the overview change. I can't say enough how much i disagree with that change. The overview already gives out too much intel for free, there's no need to give it even more. It might lead to more fights, but simply having the system name flashing in the FW window showing that a plex is being run would do the same, without making it easy on people.
Pirates should have to scan plexes down in the first place, but it doesn't seem that will change. The militia scrubs that just jump around trying to split the lp from the plex will increase. People will be able to dscan, and have a much better idea if there's an acceleration gate camp or not, actually leading to less pvp. If you see 1 person there, and the timer is counting down, you automatically know that one person is inside, with perhaps cloakers, but you'll know from local how many people you have to worry about.
Timers on the overview is just a bad change. Simply have the system name in the FW window flash. The pvpers can go there and hunt the offenders down. Handing people a sign that says "here i am" is just an idiotic change.
We can already see the plexes on overview when you are in system. Now at least we can see if anyone is in the plex running the timer. This change does not go far enough at all. The frequency of pvp in faction war is already dropping as it is no longer the the gold mine it used to be. Every militia member should know when its militiary complexes are attacked. As far as handing people a sign saying "here I am," I can only say that if you wanted to stay hidden you shouldn't have attacked a military complex. There are plenty of ways to play "hide and seek" in eve. You can run missions, rat in belts, run sleeper sites etc etc. But the current system where you can openly attack an enemy military complex and not have that military know about it is what is idiotic. They need to go much further in this direction if they really want faction war to be a unique avenue to frequent quality pvp. Unfortunately the economic incentives are lopsided. When you add mechanics to encourage pvp like a timer rollback and notifications to a lopsided war you make it even more lopsided. So they created a new problem that they will need to resolve before they can accurately judge the mechanics intended to lead to pvp.
my guess is you didn't actually read my entire post, since i said the FW window show flash when a plex is being run in that system. Attacking a military complex and having the opposing militia arrive to defend it is one thing, having pirates have free intel for no reason is idiotic. Having your own militia wait until the last minute to crash the plex and split the lp is idiotic. atleast currently, you have to dscan to know which plex someone is in, and have to scout to know if they're in the plex or gate camping it, etc.
if you don't think you should have to work at all for your pvp, there are many other games where you log in and just start fighting people. if you think you should have to plan, etc. then this change is going too far.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
518
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Posted - 2012.11.21 00:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
It seems the npc wave changes are on buckingham now. I was just in a crapfit rifter with an alt, but seemed rookie plexes only had 1 wave of 1 npc. Tried a small, and it had a 2nd wave before the first wave died, but the alt couldn't actually kill any of them, so had to get out. I think a pvp ship fit correctly with a skilled pilot won't have any issues downing the npc before new waves spawn.
If people want to try them out, it would be good to get some feedback on the number of waves etc.
The plex info still says minor, major, etc. but I believe the restrictions are correct.
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
518
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Posted - 2012.11.25 14:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mike deVoid wrote:I just tried out iHub upgrading on Buckingham just now. The maintainance tax being applied is very clear, but it means it is not straighforward for enter the required LP in order to upgrade the system.
I.E. System is already at level II and a further 20,000 LP isrequired to reach level III. If the mainenaince rate is 28% how can I enter (in a straighforward manner) the required LP to get to level 3 without having to enter it several times in an un-precise manner.
Please can you take a look at this?
Amount needed * 128% = adjusted lp needed. There's even a calculator in game if you need it.
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